When can you kill a cop?

[Gamble]

I thought this would be an interesting discussion to have in order to set a certain standard and expectation among the community and server when it comes to shooting at LEO’s. When is it justified to shoot at a cop and kill them, and when is it considered DMing?

 

Now I don’t think we need to discuss felony crime situations. If you get caught committing a (violent) felony crime, then I’d say pretty justified to shoot at cops if they chase you or attempt to arrest you. It comes with the risk of the job. Of course, shooting at 10 cops on your own means certain death and should be followed with a CK, since it’d be an easy way out to deliberately PK from getting caught.

 

Same goes for warrant executions. If cops raid your place to carry out an arrest and/or search warrant, I’d say it’s pretty justified to shoot as mentioned above.

 

What I really want to discuss, are traffic stops. On many servers, people end up shooting cops for simply getting pulled over for an infraction (e.g. speeding), with little to no interaction. Excuses often used are “I had firearms/drugs on me”, or “I was highly under the influence of cocaine”. Shooting with little to no interaction is DMing in my opinion, however.

 

But when does it become justified to shoot at a cop during a traffic stop?

 

Is it justified to shoot at a cop once you’ve properly roleplayed and interacted with them, and they ask you to step out of the vehicle because they noticed that you’re under influence of drugs? 

 

Is it justified to shoot at a cop because you’ve got a lot of drugs or firearms in the car and you don’t want to get caught?

 

Should you be able to shoot at a cop for the simple fact that they pull you over?

 

Or should you only shoot a cop if they attempt to make an arrest, or if they give you commands such as “turn around”, “step out of the vehicle?”.

 

Happy to hear your thoughts and opinions. Let’s keep it civil.

[Conwell]

10 minutes ago, Gamble said:

If you get caught committing a (violent) felony crime, then I’d say pretty justified to shoot at cops if they chase you or attempt to arrest you. It comes with the risk of the job. Of course, shooting at 10 cops on your own means certain death and should be followed with a CK, since it’d be an easy way out to deliberately PK from getting caught.

With this I agree, but it really depends on the felony. If you're wanted for double murder that you are guilty of, then sure, you would try to run by shooting at the cops. Criminals IRL (unlike on GTA) are usually bad shots while cops practice shooting on an almost daily basis. 

 

12 minutes ago, Gamble said:

Same goes for warrant executions. If cops raid your place to carry out an arrest and/or search warrant, I’d say it’s pretty justified to shoot as mentioned above.

 

Again, it depends on what's being searched. If there's a search warrant for, let's say, a pump shotgun you've been hiding in your house or a couple ounces of cocaine then, while it's a felony, it's not a life ending charge that people would rather shoot and barricade over (certain death or more charges).

 

14 minutes ago, Gamble said:

What I really want to discuss, are traffic stops. On many servers, people end up shooting cops for simply getting pulled over for an infraction (e.g. speeding), with little to no interaction. Excuses often used are “I had firearms/drugs on me”, or “I was highly under the influence of cocaine”. Shooting with little to no interaction is DMing in my opinion, however.

 

But when does it become justified to shoot at a cop during a traffic stop?

Almost never. Unless you have an active warrant for murder that you for certain know of ICly, I'd say shooting at cops during a traffic is one of the most retarded things I've gotten to experience on RP. The only exception I can think of is if you're getting pulled over and possibly searched while being armed and actively looking for someone or a group to kill and are short on time. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Gamble said:

s it justified to shoot at a cop once you’ve properly roleplayed and interacted with them, and they ask you to step out of the vehicle because they noticed that you’re under influence of drugs? 

 

Is it justified to shoot at a cop because you’ve got a lot of drugs or firearms in the car and you don’t want to get caught?

 

Should you be able to shoot at a cop for the simple fact that they pull you over?

 

Or should you only shoot a cop if they attempt to make an arrest, or if they give you commands such as “turn around”, “step out of the vehicle?”.

 

Happy to hear your thoughts and opinions. Let’s keep it civil.

No, no, no and no. First of all, when it comes to DUI or DWI, it's a REALLY common offence in the US and nothing to shoot a cop over. Some might say that they're distraught while under the influence but this is simply not the case. As a normal person, you will not be able to drive a car under so much influence (be it a high concentration of alcohol in your blood or any narcotic) that you can't control yourself and proceed to shoot a cop. 
If you have a lot of drugs or firearms in the car then sure, you could try shooting as IRL usually losing a big shipment will result in you getting killed regardless. But bare in mind that two guns and an ounce of coke are not a lot of guns/drugs and not something you should shoot at police over. 
When it comes to giving commands such as turn around and step out of the vehicle, that's not something that indicates arrest most of the times. Usually, if you were asked to step out of the vehicle it is for further investigation of either you or your vehicle. When it comes to you personally it could be to either assess if you are under the influence, if you are carrying something hidden on your person, if you are being uncooperative and may pose a flight risk. When it comes to cuffing someone, it is usually for further investigation and not to arrest someone. Cops will usually say this and specify that the person is being detained and not arrested. They will cuff the person, put them in the back of their car and usually search the vehicle before deciding on charges, if any. It is for this reason that I believe you shouldn't shoot at cops just because they asked you to step out and/or cuffed you. If you're carrying a gun, sure, you're fucked, but it's just a gun, right? It's not a massive charge carrying multiple decades behind bars. It's usually two, three years depending on your previous record. It's not something to throw your life away for and most people won't do it.

[remmy]

I don't really think there are set scenarios that warrant shooting a cop.

Keep it realistic and understand that there are severe consequences to killing law enforcement and after you've done so, there are no second chances with what happens after that.

[Gamble]

5 minutes ago, remmy said:

I don't really think there are set scenarios that warrant shooting a cop.

Keep it realistic and understand that there are severe consequences to killing law enforcement and after you've done so, there are no second chances with what happens after that.

You can use set scenarios as examples to what is realistic and what is DMing. This thread is to discuss server rules and standards, not IC consequences.

[NickyW]

16 minutes ago, Gamble said:

You can use set scenarios as examples to what is realistic and what is DMing. This thread is to discuss server rules and standards, not IC consequences.

No you can't.

 

Cops get killed over speeding tickets IRL. Cops get killed for just pulling the wrong person over, even if they have no intention of giving them a ticket.

 

Cops get killed for responding to their eventual killers' own 911 calls., Cops get killed for intervening in arguments.

 

There's no "unrealistic" scenario in which you'd kill a cop.

 

Admins just have to use judgement to determine whether or not killing a LEO makes sense given the situation, the mindset of the character, and the development/consequences.

 

@Conwell

 

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I'd say shooting at cops during a traffic is one of the most retarded things I've gotten to experience on RP. 

 

It's interesting you say that, because it's by FAR the most realistic time to shoot at police officers. As a law enforcement officer, you are statistically more likely to die in a traffic stop than you are a responder to any 911 call, executing a high risk warrant, or encountering a barricaded suspect. In fact, the only situation in which you're more likely to get shot as a police officer is during a mass shooting in which police officers are the primary target.

 

Quote

No, no, no and no. First of all, when it comes to DUI or DWI, it's a REALLY common offence in the US and nothing to shoot a cop over. 

 

Another statement that reality doesn't support. DUI stops are some of the most dangerous stops for police officers. People drunk enough to think driving drunk is okay are definitely drunk enough to try harming a police officer that's trying to apprehend them.

[Conwell]

6 minutes ago, NickyW said:

No you can't.

 

Cops get killed over speeding tickets IRL. Cops get killed for just pulling the wrong person over, even if they have no intention of giving them a ticket.

 

Cops get killed for responding to their eventual killers' own 911 calls., Cops get killed for intervening in arguments.

 

There's no "unrealistic" scenario in which you'd kill a cop.

 

Admins just have to use judgement to determine whether or not killing a LEO makes sense given the situation, the mindset of the character, and the development/consequences.

Those are mostly insane people though. I wouldn't take that "insanity" thing as an excuse unless the person has actually documented their months long descent into insanity. 

We are talking about RP here. It's always OOC motives of not losing a gun or not going to jail overpowering someone actually going out of their way to RP getting drunk, getting pulled over for DUI and shooting the cop for whatever reason.

[NickyW]

2 minutes ago, Conwell said:

Those are mostly insane people though. I wouldn't take that "insanity" thing as an excuse unless the person has actually documented their months long descent into insanity.

 

Less than 5 percent of suspects charged with murder of a law enforcement officer even attempt an insanity defense. Less than 1 percent are successful.

 

It's normally regular people with poor coping skills, or who are very intoxicated. Or just people that are ignorant.

[Conwell]

1 minute ago, NickyW said:

 

Less than 5 percent of suspects charged with murder of a law enforcement officer even attempt an insanity defense. Less than 1 percent are successful.

 

It's normally regular people with poor coping skills, or who are very intoxicated. Or just people that are ignorant.

Pleading insanity and actually being fucked in the head is different.

[NickyW]

Just now, Conwell said:

Pleading insanity and actually being fucked in the head is different.

 

Sure.

 

But RP'ing being fucked in the head isn't bad RP, a poor excuse, or unrealistic.

 

It's incredibly common to be "fucked in the head". John Hopkins states that almost 25 percent of the population suffers from a mental disorder of some sort. That's 1 in every 4 people. Cops interact with dozens of people a day. In a high crime area like Liberty City, doesn't it make sense that they'd encounter plenty of really dangerous situations?

[Conwell]

We are not here to flex stats regardless, we are here to discuss the situation on the server. I wouldn't want to see people shooting cops at traffic stops and pulling those statistics that you just did to make an excuse for their DMing mentality. I don't want to see people shooting cops to save their guns and then saying "if you are drunk enough to think drunk driving is okay you are drunk enough to kill a cop!". I don't want to see people say "Cops get killed over speeding tickets IRL. Cops get killed for just pulling the wrong person over, even if they have no intention of giving them a ticket." in order to excuse their DMing behavior. I hope you understand my point better now.