Revisiting our VOIP discussion

[Biography]

I also noticed that perhaps, due to my fault, some of you might have misunderstood the option for delete TS, keep radios IG. The basis of that option is to simply transfer VOIP IG, not to entirely delete it.

 

This is my bad since I've just noticed it was worded poorly. I apologize for this mistake.

[Fat Bulldog Ferrer]

23 minutes ago, Biography said:

@Rodrigo_Ferrer

 

There is another issue concerning blips that isn't considered by the players who advocate for the removal of TS. Often times, especially during peak hours, there are multiple emergency situations (shootouts, pursuits, foot chases) occurring at the same time. If we do adopt the blip system, PD will unfortunately plunge into chaos as there will be no possible way of overseeing which incident has responding units, how many and whether they are equipped to deal with the incident. This limits the shift supervisor to properly direct resources and may also cause further unfair advantage of PD because of the following:

• the blip system is always accurate and if a police officer is chasing you without having to update, they focus only on the driving and therefore your chance of evasion becomes even limited.
• because there is no way to properly direct resources to an incident, you can have as many as 10,15 units show up to an incident, significantly overpowering you. In most cases, the shift supervisor, upon seeing how many units are in a TAC, informs those who are not in the pursuit line, for example to discontinue from engaging and proceed with patrol.

As much as I don't like officers chit-chatting in their individual TS channels whilst on patrol, this particular suggestion, I fear, will not serve as a balance instrument and may turn to be the opposite.

 

1. The blip is only one piece of technology (GPS tracking). The problem of plunging into chaos can be solved by implementing standard operating procedures or adding additional script features that equal real-life technologies, and improving the quality of (in-game) communication. Right now, VOIP is just "one solution that fixes all problems" because of how widely applicable it is. The way an LEO communicates in chat and how they communicate in VOIP is completely different and should be treated as such. 
2. It's far more difficult to evade a police unit that communicates but doesn't have tracking than a police unit that has tracking but doesn't communicate. I know a racing faction from Everlast/LSRP who tested it to great extent. It's not even comparable in terms of being able to outrun someone who simply follows you than someone who communicates with other units on your direction/pursuit techniques and strategy. When communication is available, the lead pursuit vehicle or whoever is in charge can micromanage others whereas when communication is unavailable or limited, it relies on short but concise communication and other units being trained on standard operating procedures and coordination. Furthermore, there's a question of delay: when you can play (for example, drive) and communicate hands-free, there's little to no delay. When you/your partner have to communicate through text, it adds the same delay that regular players have when they have to do everything through text. Let's not forget you can't ''play'' while you type. You can play while you talk over VOIP. 
3. The second item is a non-problem. It's a matter of communication and coordination between (the shift supervisor and) units. If 10, or 15 units show up to an insignificant incident then it comes down to resourcefulness and should be treated as IC. 

I personally don't think we should encourage VOIP in any context. There are always alternatives, it levels the playing field and discourages regular players from cheating by secretly using VOIP.

[Effect]

2 minutes ago, Rodrigo_Ferrer said:

 

1. The blip is only one piece of technology (GPS tracking). The problem of plunging into chaos can be solved by implementing standard operating procedures or adding additional script features that equal real-life technologies, and improving the quality of (in-game) communication. Right now, VOIP is just "one solution that fixes all problems" because of how widely applicable it is. The way an LEO communicates in chat and how they communicate in VOIP is completely different and should be treated as such. 
2. It's far more difficult to evade a police unit that communicates but doesn't have tracking than a police unit that has tracking but doesn't communicate. I know a racing faction from Everlast/LSRP who tested it to great extent. It's not even comparable in terms of being able to outrun someone who simply follows you than someone who communicates with other units on your direction/pursuit techniques and strategy. When communication is available, the lead pursuit vehicle or whoever is in charge can micromanage others whereas when communication is unavailable or limited, it relies on short but concise communication and other units being trained on standard operating procedures and coordination. Furthermore, there's a question of delay: when you can play (for example, drive) and communicate hands-free, there's little to no delay. When you/your partner have to communicate through text, it adds the same delay that regular players have when they have to do everything through text. Let's not forget you can't ''play'' while you type. You can play while you talk over VOIP. 
3. The second item is a non-problem. It's a matter of communication and coordination between (the shift supervisor and) units. If 10, or 15 units show up to an insignificant incident then it comes down to resourcefulness and should be treated as IC. 

I personally don't think we should encourage VOIP in any context. There are always alternatives, it levels the playing field and discourages regular players from cheating by secretly using VOIP.

If voip is heard by other players I have no probs somewhat.

Still if it's TS usage then I'll chuckle.
When it's LEO factions that uses it - It's high tech and solution to all the problems.
When other factions uses it - Then it's metagame.
Always disliked that kind of mentality so let's at least find some sort of middle ground on this issue so yes, I do agree we need alternatives or we will have same old bs that we've seen in other servers.

[cerberus]

4 minutes ago, Effect said:

If voip is heard by other players I have no probs somewhat.

Still if it's TS usage then I'll chuckle.
When it's LEO factions that uses it - It's high tech and solution to all the problems.
When other factions uses it - Then it's metagame.
Always disliked that kind of mentality so let's at least find some sort of middle ground on this issue so yes, I do agree we need alternatives or we will have same old bs that we've seen in other servers.

 

You can monitor and enforce strict rules on LEO usage of TeamSpeak. Whilst, you cannot do the same when civilians or criminals do it. 

LEO factions have supervisors, higher-ups who can even enforce punishments for wrong usage of TeamSpeak, but for civilians who's there? 

[Effect]

14 minutes ago, dean said:

 

You can monitor and enforce strict rules on LEO usage of TeamSpeak. Whilst, you cannot do the same when civilians or criminals do it. 

LEO factions have supervisors, higher-ups who can even enforce punishments for wrong usage of TeamSpeak, but for civilians who's there? 

Fine, then please clarify how monitor and enforcement will happen /here/ to justify the usage of TS. I am sorry if you answered that already (a quote would suffice then).
 

[cerberus]

7 minutes ago, Effect said:

Fine, then please clarify how monitor and enforcement will happen /here/ to justify the usage of TS. I am sorry if you answered that already (a quote would suffice then).
 

 

I'll be as transparent as I can. We haven't really had the chance to discuss this specific topic but will be a main topic of discussion in the next meeting with the rest of the leaders.

[Fat Bulldog Ferrer]

To be fair, if LEO VOIP was in-game so regular players could hear it in close proximity, and only limited to certain situations (pursuits, for example) then it would start to make sense.

 

However, the problem is that it doesn't discourage regular players from secretly using VOIP to balance the scale. Any leniency you make in terms of exceptions for a certain group of players simply makes other groups of players inclined to cheat to get even (for the record, I'm not necessarily saying the majority do, and some ''use VOIP realistically even if against the rules'', and any significant move (for example, everybody having access to VOIP in certain circumstances) toward text/VOIP hybrid is a deviation from text-based roleplay regardless of how you paint the reasoning for someone requiring VOIP.

 

If you're really objective and don't side for or against, it should be obvious that 0 tolerance would discourage anyone from using VOIP whereas LEOs using VOIP literally encourages certain others to use VOIP. It's human behavior.

 

I don't want to sound like a broken record preaching to the choir but in terms of new era of roleplay it would make sense if we moved away from VOIP and explored alternatives for what VOIP is used for, in-game and script-wise, to make it fair for everybody. 

[Effect]

12 minutes ago, dean said:

 

I'll be as transparent as I can. We haven't really had the chance to discuss this specific topic but will be a main topic of discussion in the next meeting with the rest of the leaders.

Fair enough - but that's exactly somewhat my main concern. We need to be sure that police won't fall for this "hypothetical" risk.
If there's a solid framework how this stuff will be monitored and ensured that TS/Voip or w/e is not abused I could get on board.

[Kaos]

Most law enforcement personnel use a ear piece to hear their radio, which a citizen wouldn’t hear. However, you would be able to hear and and see them talking into it in which if it’s on ts, they SHOULD BE REQUIRED to do a /me every time they talk on the radio. If they talk on VOIP, it should automatically do the /me (or just have them do it if not auto).

[cerberus]

17 minutes ago, Effect said:

Fair enough - but that's exactly somewhat my main concern. We need to be sure that police won't fall for this "hypothetical" risk.
If there's a solid framework how this stuff will be monitored and ensured that TS/Voip or w/e is not abused I could get on board.

 

Every concern that I see here will be taken into consideration. We also want a balance and not two battlefields. I'll make sure I do everything in my hand to regulate the usage of TeamSpeak in the best way possible. However, I cannot promise that I will 100% eliminate Metagaming because that is impossible, even for Management to do, but at least we will regulate it.